Two things have occurred lately that have brought the matter of the elderly sub to mind. First, was a bit of personal mental reminiscing about my "subs of the past". For those of you who haven't followed my blog from its beginnings, I'll mention that before Karl and I met, I had three different subs in three different cities where I travelled in my job. One of these subs was over 60 years old, totally dedicated to me, and both a delightful person and an excellent sub. When I gave up my three subs to spend my time - and eventually - my life with Karl, this man was absolutely devastated. He told me how hard it was to find a true Dom who was interested in a man his age, and how he had heretofore been forced to seek the services of a professional Dominatrix. In short, he now feared that his chances of finding someone like me again were slim, to say the least.
I certainly sympathized with him and agreed that it would be very hard, but there was nothing I could really do to help him. I said my farewell, wished him well, and went on my way, but I've often thought about him and wondered if he'd managed to find another "me" out there. He'd now be around 70 years old, and unless he came across a Dom near his age, the chances of his finding a younger Dom willing to take on such an older sub.....well, not good at all.
The second thing turning my mind toward the eldersub is a current experience I've had at the home for the elderly where I serve as a volunteer. I enjoy reading to older people with eye problems, or playing games and/or conversing with people who have been relatively forgotten by their family and rarely have visitors, especially visitors who give a damn about them. A very sad situation to witness, and if I can bring a bit of human interaction to such people, it just makes me (and them) feel good. So many of the elderly have fascinating life experiences and there's so much to be learned from them if one simply takes the time to listen.
The home where I volunteer is for elderly people with physical disabilities as opposed to mental disabilities. People who simply can't care for themselves any more, but are mentally just fine. Many more women than men, and that's because women generally live longer than men, but still quite a few men among them. One man in particular is the person who has brought the problem of the eldersub to the forefront lately. He's 73 years old, and let's call him Pete. Very bright, very full of great stories from his past life as a college professor, but suffering from an arthritic condition that keeps him mostly wheelchair bound, though he can use a walker on good days. Unfortunately, his wife has passed away, his kids live thousands of miles away, and he sees them maybe once a year or so.
At any rate, Pete and I connected on a mental level, and after many conversations he revealed two things to me. One, he was a naturally submissive male who had had many submissive "scenes" with his wife, and two - and this was disconcerting to say the least - he sensed that I was a dominant woman! When I asked (and I admit to being a bit flustered) what brought him to this conclusion, he just gave me a sly smile and said "it takes a sub to know a Dom when he sees one", and that's all I could get out of him. Well, I just laughed and quickly changed the subject, but Pete waited a bit and said "Don't worry, your secret is safe with me, but I'd really like to explore the subject with you if you wouldn't mind".
I was quite taken aback at all of this, as I've never had anyone catch me out, so to speak, when I was in my "normal" mode, and I could not figure out how he had seen the real me under my vanilla façade. We'd had so many different conversations in the months that I'd known him, and I couldn't pinpoint anything that would have "outed" me as a dominant woman. While I was still reeling from what he said, Pete went on to say that he missed terribly the days when he could serve his wife as her sub and sometime slave, and that though he was crippled he still had sexual feelings and would be ever so grateful if I would at least talk to him about this subject so that he could once again feel some of "the thrill" of his past.
Whew! This was definitely a new situation for me. Luckily, a physical therapist arrived to work with Pete and I beat a hasty retreat before any more was said. It has been a week since that conversation, and I've had some time to think about it and discuss it with Karl. Not surprisingly, Karl was very sympathetic toward Pete, and he didn't see any reason why I shouldn't talk more to him about D/s matters. I said that I feared that it would lead to too many problems, especially if Pete wound up getting aroused as we talked. What then, and what if he actually wanted me to play an active role in his fantasies, whatever they might be? Plus, I said, do I really want to even admit that he was correct in his supposition concerning my dominance? Won't that just open up a can of worms that we take such pains to avoid in our vanilla lives?
As of now, I still haven't decided what to do. The whole thing has me thinking about the problems of the eldersub who still wants to feel the joy of submitting to a dominant woman. What a shame that when a male reaches a certain age, especially if he has physical infirmities, his days as a sub are likely to be done. It doesn't seem fair, and as for the matter of Pete, my gut feeling is just to tell him he was wrong in thinking I was a Dom, and perhaps avoid him in the future and let all of this disappear before it gets out of hand. However, I like him as a person and would miss interacting with him, and I'm certain that he feels the same way about me. So where do I go from here?
I'd be very interested in hearing what my readers have to say about this matter and about the problems of an eldersub in general.
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First, thank you for taking the time to offer your thoughts and perspectives on this blog. It has been very helpful to me in my journey over the years. I'd also like to applaud you for donating your time to those in need, especially the lonesome elderly you describe.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I am happily married, as a 60ish male, I can appreciate how difficult it would be if I had to start over at this age. Most women of our generation are much less comfortable with this lifestyle than the younger generations, so perhaps things will improve for the future oldsters.
As far as recommendations, perhaps you might consider setting ground rules for the conversations before revealing yourself to him. Maybe inform him you are not comfortable sharing personal details of this nature to acquaintances. However, you would be happy to listen to him about his experiences as long as he understood that you would not reciprocate in kind. Any attempt to draw you into that would end the conversation. In this manner you would be acting in the capacity of a reflective mental health therapist who listens and helps clarify but doesn't interject themselves into the process.
If your comfortable with just listening this might work well. You should be able to discern quickly what kind of submissive he was (by observing if he challenges your boundaries early and often), then you will be better informed as to whether he is worthy of deeper engagement.
Thanks again for this great blog, and good luck!
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. That's an interesting idea you've come up with, though I'm not certain that I'd be comfortable in the role of a mental health therapist, even a quasi one. I will certainly consider it. Again, thanks!
DeleteWow! It would cathartic for him. What an amazing situation. Truth can certainly be stranger than fiction. I LOVE your blog. You write like a dream:))
DeleteThank you, Explorer, for this and all your other kind comments. You still make me blush:)
DeleteOHH, blushing turns me on! You are brainy, and seductive. I hope you find a solution!
DeleteI agree with Uxorious mate in the idea that you may start just by letting him tell you stories of his past, giving you the chance to better understand what he would expect from you going forward and of course giving you the position to set the rules and expectations.
ReplyDeleteWhat keeps him from telling everyone he sees about you, and how much impact would you feel if he did?
my thoughts on this quote.
"...I feared that it would lead to too many problems, especially if Pete wound up getting aroused as we talked"
I think you could expect him to be aroused during those talks. If that makes you uncomfortable then maybe you should just inform him that you are just a normal confident independant woman with no identity as a domme and that you enjoy speaking to him and would like to continue but the topic if sex or d/s would be off limits.
Good Luck
Thank you Miss Lily for another insightful set of ideas. Of course, I have no way of telling in advance whether he's as trustworthy as he seems to be, and, no, it would not be at all pleasant if the entire "home" suddenly saw me as a Femdom. Is it worth the risk? Probably not, but my gut tells me he'd keep his word.
DeleteI like your idea - and your words - concerning the "arousal" problem. I'm trying to imagine just how uncomfortable that would make me - still mulling that one over:)
I see your point. Best of luck..
DeleteThank you very much for sharing, Lady Grey.
ReplyDeleteI can't really advise on this as much as I can try to offer perspective. I hope I don't appear too biased as I have a soft spot when it comes to the elderly due to my past experiences, especially for those who become "trapped in their body" as age breaks them down.
I have to believe that it took a great deal of courage for Pete to approach that subject. There is a very good chance he had inferred his feeling several conversations in and buried it deep within himself, obsessing about whether or not to bring it up until he finally worked up the courage to lay it out there. I'm guessing his deciding factor was that it wasn't worth avoiding... even knowing what was at risk. The chance at being able to connect with someone on that level... knowing it may cause the relationship to be severed.
While it could be seen as unfair to put you in that position, the thought of living out the rest of his life hiding himself isn't exactly a happy one and probably weighed heavily in his decision. Losing your contact would probably hurt him, but that is a risk he was willing to take.
I do have to believe that Pete would probably practice an extreme level of discretion in regards to topics of that nature. I think that knowing we are different in a taboo way leads to that, especially those who have lived it beyond a fantasy.
As for what you could do, there are basically three options:
1. Avoid him from now on.
2. Continue to interact with him but keep that topic off limits.
3. Continue to interact with him while allowing that topic to come up.
If I did try to give some advice on whether or not to choose #3, it would be to ask yourself if you would get enjoyment out of it.
As I have known you to be very private about this in your life, I know that option would be taking you out of your comfort zone. At base value if you are going to leave that comfort zone it should do something for you too, right?
Trying to put myself in his shoes I can imagine the inner dialogue is something along the lines of "please please please please please..." but it is a bit of a selfish request :)
Feeling obligation, guilt, or sympathy about it aren't really great reasons for doing it. Doing it becuase you think it would be fun, enjoyable, or rewarding for you starts to bring it closer to the light.
I do agree with what Uxorious Mate has said about rules/boundaries if you did choose to go that route.
Take care.
Thank you, fur. As usual, you've given me lots to ponder. I hadn't considered what it must have taken for Pete to bring this matter up. No doubt he is missing his former married submissive life, and I'd hate to abandon him in his time of need, but you're correct in pointing out that the risk I would take in re privacy is a large factor in my thinking.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to take choice #1. Choice #2 is probably the more sensible. Choice #3 is appealing only if I can positively answer the question of whether it would be enjoyable to me - and healthy for him. He could certainly get carried away with all of this, and that could get very awkward.
I'm thinking...I'm thinking....etc.
Thank you, Lady Grey. I think some awkwardness is inevitable but I also believe you could control it where the awkwardness would be mostly for him.
DeleteI would take it mostly as a given that he would get aroused by talking about just about any of it. Eg if you were to ask Karl to how he would describe the act and joys of your breakfast ritual I'm sure he would find a way to get aroused talking about cooking eggs.
With that in mind, you could always simply listen and respond without revealing anything. Often one word responses, facial expressions, changes in breathing, etc. are enough to tilt a sub into space. Im that regards you wouldn't really be jeopardizing privacy aside from being someone that is tolerant and with an open mind.
I can't really speak for others on how they would feel knowing that another person is getting aroused in their presence. In some situations it is cute while in others it would probably feel creepy.
I wouldn't worry as much about him developing a loving emotional attachment although if you were to accept his true self and allow him to converse on those topics I would wager that you would likely become the most important person in his life. It is so rare that we find people that we can reveal our true selves to.
IF you chose to go with #3 in some capacity, stating from the start that if he gets carried away that you would break off contact without hesitation, may be enough of a deterrent to keep him from ever going overboard.
Take care.
Sounds like a tricky road to follow, with choice #3. I'm no stranger to having my words to a sub cause arousal, but in this context things are very different than usual. Just what would be the definition of "carried away", and wouldn't it be quite a chore to monitor that and keep it under control? Assuming he reached a point where I had to cut it off, what would his response be and could I trust him not to seek a sort of revenge by revealing much too much to others at the home?
Delete"Hell hath not the fury of an eldersub scorned" perhaps? Hmmm.
There are a few things to keep in mind. One of them is that the fear of being "outed" by him is relatively small because in order for him to out you as a Dominant, he has to out himself as a submissive. Most people aren't willing to do that.
DeleteIn my estimation the worst possible scenario is this: He falls in love with you, wants to submit to you, and starts behaving in a way that causes concern from his family. e.g. changing the primary benefactor of his living will to you over them, etc.
If carried away means anything, I would think it is that. If he has managed to provide intellectually stimulating conversation up until now, it is likely that most "petty" behaviors are unlikely, especially since anything negative to you will cut as a double-edged sword.
"She likes to spank men!"
"How do you know?"
"Umm... no reason... it's not like I like to be dominated by women or anything..."
"Riiiiiight."
I think in a lot of ways, just being able to talk to someone about any of this is helpful for many. That being said, he needs you a lot more than you need him in that regard.
A concern I would have is that he will become addicted to contact with you.
If you were just to listen to him, I'm sure he would love the opportunity to talk about it with someone that is non-judgmental but at the same time, a smirk, a click of the tongue against the teeth, a shake of the head, and so on would probably affect him deeply on that level. It is odd that subs wish to be judged... just not rejected for the fact that they are subs.
It is possible to reveal nothing of yourself... the follow-up question to that is would this be enjoyable in any way while maintaining privacy?
It's interesting how complicated this can get :D
In love with me? Addicted to contact with me? Watch out not to smirk, click my tongue, give a shake of the head? Is it all really worth it? Fur, you little devil, you're not making this any easier! Complicated, and then some:)
DeleteI did mention him falling in love as the worst case scenario :)
DeleteFor many people who feel lonely or isolated and have probably given up hope on finding that type of dynamic again, being able to be truly open with someone else repeatedly over time... will likely lead to a strong affinity for that person. I guess you could see this as a good or bad thing, but I do believe it constitutes a level of intimacy beyond casual acquaintance or even most levels of friendship.
Things like a smirk, a grin, a sigh, and the like would probably be enough to send him spiraling into subspace. I do not think you would necessarily have to hold it back but it is good to be aware of their power. I think many of us live in fear of rejection by "society" for living an alternative lifestyle. It sometimes has a "judge me harshly but do not reject me" kind of thing. If I put myself in his shoes I believe it would be that way for me.
As for if it is worth it, I cannot say. It is kind of a lopsided trade. It would probably mean the world to him but does it do enough for you?
It might give you some interesting ideas. It might provide some positive feelings knowing what you are doing is deeply important to him. Are those enough for you to make it worth it?
If you feel it would be inappropriate or if it is not something that interests you, then you know what is probably the right path. I just think these should be stronger reasons than the fear of privacy and the like.
If the topic keeps pulling you in... that is another situation altogether.
I personally would be curious as to what tipped him off. If you do choose to wing it and feel things out you might open with asking him what led him to that conclusion (and you would still be free to deny it).
The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of encouraging him. I just see too many potential complications along the way, and I certainly don't need that. However, I would definitely like to know what "tipped him off", and at the same time - as you say - be able to deny that I'm what he thinks I am. That would involve some very careful wording on my part, and several of the comments I've gotten speak to that. Thanks again, fur. Your analytical mind is working overtime:)
DeleteYou are probably correct, Lady Grey.
DeleteI couldn't really come up with any way to balance the scales. Since you wrote about it, I have to believe that you do find life more enjoyable with him in it, but delving into D/s aspects throws that balance off. It would be a very different situation if you were a novice and could learn from a veteran.
I do have a fairly decent radar when it comes to spotting Dominants and I have to say I am quite curious what did it for him.
Without knowing what your interactions are like, my gut tells me something along the lines of "the way you carry yourself" or "you give off that aura" if there wasn't a specific tell for it.
Take care.
I do plan to find out just what he spotted. Thanks again for all of your thoughts on this matter, fur.
DeleteSuch beautiful support that you received on this situation. I hope it works out for you. Thank you:)))
DeleteYour caution in this is wise; who is he really? I think I could relate to him in many ways if the terror of a few unfortunate happenings crossed my lifepath, but blessings have visited me instead.
ReplyDeletePerhaps he is just playing a hunch. You did not flinch the first time he spoke of it; your eyebrows did not arch with morbid curiosity, did they? It sounds, perhaps, that you may have even added an intelligent insight or two about the subject with him. Who else in society seems to know the truth of much of anything about this life style, save the participants? Maybe a fact or two the general public speaks of it may be close to the reality of it, but the bulk of what they say belies their ignorance and unfamiliarity with D/s. Just read a few mainstream media articles to demonstrate their lack of understanding of what makes us tick. A life of service, relinquishing monetary control, male chastity? I love their commentaries! To know of it; good chance you are in it.
Having said that, I did not wish to negate his hopes to be able speak with you about this for I could only imagine the joy within him to have this outlet. The problem come in how you choose to deal with it. Maybe your denial of knowledge with the request of recieving it from him to satisfy your active, open mind would work and still retain your innocence? JT
I'd have to say that that I kept a perfect poker face during his "speech". Certainly no positive or negative reinforcement on my part (nor intelligent insights), and the propitious arrival of the therapist enabled me to hastily exit the scene before things got too far along.
ReplyDeleteYour final sentence is very intriguing. It certainly offers a certain distance that is appealing while enabling him to relive some of his past. Thank you very much!
Thank you for sharing this which proves (to me?) how, brain, kindness, D/s mixes in a beautiful exile called live, if needed. Very touching to me. E.Ny
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome E.Ny, but just what are you saying? I'm afraid I just don't understand your words about what this proves. Can you be more clear, please?
ReplyDeleteI meant elixir, not exile! BTW congrats for your blog. I remember reading -among other- your comment on the lack of comment of your readers which led me to comment, trying to client above the crowd of individuals wanking to your great prose. Let me me if you ever come to Bermuda, which was obviously not your last destination...and introduce me please to you younger (or older) sister. Kind regards. Ericny70@yahoo.com. No need to publish this...obviously!
DeleteThere are a lot of things to consider here. He benefits from your visits. You enjoy his company (and hearing of his past). He has expressed his submissive tendencies and scenes with his wife. You know who you are (although as of yet he doesn't). Should you agree to reveal your true self it will change your relationship - at least the topics you discuss to some degree and his view of you in particular. Katie thinks you should deny his accusation and just continue on as you had. He has obviously enjoyed your interaction during these past months. Isn't that enough.
ReplyDeleteI think the cursed words from a woman are 'let's just be friends'. If you decide to tell him you're a Dom you move a step closer 'intimately'. That intimacy may not be something you share but it sure seems as if it will be something he feels. He knows your secret. He gains power - because you now have to trust him to keep that secret at the home where he resides (with all those women :).
I think I'd not tell him you are a Dom. Why complicate things. In time he'll give up wondering and be thankful for what time he can spend with you.
Stay away from the slippery slope.
Your thoughts - and Katie's - reflect the direction my mind is going toward after reading all of the thoughtful comments I've received. It is a slippery slope, and there are simply too many potentially negative variables in agreeing to involve myself in something simply because I like Pete and feel sympathy for his situation.
DeleteVery happy you stopped by, and nice to hear thoughts from Katie as well!
Perhaps "role play" with him and let him tell you his fantasies.
DeleteEither just tell him he's being a naughty boy and that you won't come and read to him again, if he continues being suggestive, or ignore him completely from now on.
ReplyDeleteWell, that's certainly the harsh side of things! Pete is not one of the people I read to. We just converse about life in general and play backgammon on occasion, but nevertheless, your suggestion is still relevant. I'm just not sure I want to take it to that extreme, but I'm fairly certain that I'll be denying his supposition one way or the other.
DeleteBTW, I've checked out your blog. Expect some comments from this side of the pond, and I do love the way your wife is handling the "new cane" situation! Good luck with that:)
This is a very interesting situation that you find yourself in. My sense is that since you did not immediately deny it that he knows he is correct. But what does being a dominant woman mean? Certainly there are many woman that are dominant in their work and personal life while not living a D/s lifestyle. Acknowledging that you are a woman that know what she wants and is in control of her life does not mean that you live a D/s lifestyle in your relationships. I would think that you can acknowledge that you are in control of your life and thereby a dominant woman while not acknowledging a particular lifestyle in regards to your relationships. In this way you remain true to yourself while not getting into your specific relationships. Just my humble thoughts
ReplyDeleteVery clever! I like the way that you're suggesting that I approach this and the wording seems spot on. As to whether he knows he's correct, I think that's still up in the air thanks to the arrival of the physical therapist who showed up at the perfect moment (for me). Thank you for your humble thoughts. If you comment again, why don't you sign yourself as "humble" so I know which "anonymous" I'm hearing from. Makes things a lot clearer.
DeleteI will do so. I love your blog and read it all the time. Take care.
Deletehumble
Thank you, Ma'am, for sharing this with us. I have purposely not read any of the replies to your post as I didn't want them to sway my own thoughts in a particular direction.
ReplyDeletePerhaps a little background information will make my opinions easier to grasp might not go amiss. By the way, Ma'am. please feel free to publish this on your blog or not; I am also happy to have my reply edited in any way that suits the tone of 'Woman in Control'.
I shall be seventy next birthday and I also have end-stage kidney disease, so I am acutely aware of the obstacles in my path as a submissive and somewhat pain-loving man. Our physical 'play' ended some time ago, but it has to be said that the sexiest thing about any of us is the thing we carry between our ears! Indeed, although 'the spirit is willing ...' I still find solace in that wonderful thing we call memory, and I frequently 'top-up' with blogs such as yours and some of the other better FemDom and D/s websites, as well as many of the fictional stories available on sites such as Literotica.
It seems to me that there is little you can do to physically help the gentleman you mention, but it doesn't surprise me in the least that he saw in you a dominant and forceful personality; it is easy to dismiss such notions as 'gaydar' and I am convinced that the aura of a Dominant is always visible to a natural and attentive submissive.
It is not my place to offer advice, and I would not be so presumptuous, Ma'a, but if he is still capable of writing -- or even saving his thoughts onto a samrt-phone, I'm sure it would be a delight for him if you would read or hear them and discuss them with him. Further than that, I know from my own experience how much something associated with Mistress, especially something like a stocking, can bring such comfort and feeling of belonging, even when separated. If you have evr read 'The Things they Carried' by Tim O'Brien, you will remember the chapter 'Stockings'.
I wish you well, Ma'am, and thank you once again for sharing this poser with us. If you would like to take this correspondence further, please send me an email to LC47ATgmxDOTcom.
With my deepest respects and affection.
Anonymous X
Very nice to hear from a man in the same age group as Pete, but I'm sorry to hear about your physical troubles. I'm a bit confused as to what you're suggesting in re a stocking (or somesuch) and what it has to do with this situation. Are you suggesting that I should give him a token? Please clarify, and yes, I've read O'Brien's book:)
DeleteHello again, Ma'am. and thank you for reading my post. I think it started well but then began to wander. You are absolutely correct in thinking that I suggested you might offer a personal token, and I realise just what a token such as this would mean to a man in this kind of situation.
DeletePlease forgive my rambling sometimes -- I am an old man!
AnonymousX
No need for forgiveness. I appreciate your thoughts, so just keep on rambling:)
Deletewhat an insightful and tender reply! Hope Lady Grey can go forward with a plan:)
DeleteSounds to me, Lady Grey, like Pete is topping from the bottom. You should first of all be physically attracted to Pete and if so proceed with any kind of relationship that pleases you not him. Your pleasures are what count.
ReplyDeleteThis hasn't reached the stage where any topping from the bottom is going on, and I won't allow it to reach that stage. Also, there's no physical attraction on my part. I'm nearing a solution to this matter, and I'll be posting about it soon. Thank you for commenting.
DeleteWhat an interesting predicament! Of course, you. Are aware that Pete's instincts are spot on. Sometimes I meet women that I feel confidant atr dominant as well. If Pete mentions this again, I'd simply say, give him a nice smile and admit to nothing unless you want to. He might interprete the smile as an acknowledgement of your dominance, but if you change the subject there is little he can do because he still has no certainty and more likely than not, understands your sentiments.
ReplyDeleteG.M.
Yes, many things to consider when I address the subject with Pete. I'm working on it! Thank you for your input, G.M.
DeleteI've been reading your blog for years. I do find it interesting and well written. Truthfully I have to admit that I find your lifestyle of domination harsh (it wouldn't be my cup of tea, but if it suits you and your slave, that's the one thing that counts).
ReplyDeleteBut now I want to congratulate you with your latest blog post. Not only because it makes you more real, but particularly since it raises an interesting topic. Thank you for that.
It's not up to me to give you advice. You need to be the judge of that. But if it were me, I would continue the relationship by acknowledging that you are a dominant woman but without giving more information about your own femdom lifestyle and experiences. Let him just speculate on that and if he tries to get more information from you, just reprimand him in a friendly manner and create some distance between the two of you after such "scene" - but only for a little while.
Best of luck!
Thank you for commenting. I have resolved the situation - hopefully - and will be posting about it shortly, but I do appreciate your suggestion. Take care.
ReplyDeleteRereading this post and replys. Such great support and love shown...
ReplyDelete