I promised I'd write a bit more on the subject of pain - giving and taking - and a conversation with husband/sub/slave Karl during our "time out" period gives me a perfect excuse to get into it once again. We always discuss our slave sessions after they occur, and this is a very valuable exercise in the growth of our particular lifestyle. Nothing is off limits, and we've learned a great deal about each other and ourselves during these conversations. I daresay that the exchange of information has been critical to the success of our relationship.
Anyway, this particular conversation revolved around the increasing level of pain that Karl was being subjected to as our slave sessions became longer and more intense. We talked about his feelings as the receiver of the pain, and my feelings as the giver. I was well aware that I was feeling a new level of intensity and, as a result, was taking his corporal punishment to a new level as well. Was it too much for him? Was it too much for me? Was this an area that needed adjustment downward - for both of us? Or, perish the thought!!, did we want to keep going upward in the spiral of pain?
Make no mistake, Karl was definitely responding to the increase of pain. He'd already told me in previous conversations that he'd reached a level he called "complete surrender". He said that this "slave space" was far more powerful than his previous subspace had been, and that when we were into one of our sessions, he was now a complete "tool" (his word) to be used any way I saw fit. Now it had reached the point where he described it as almost trancelike, in that he simply had no will to disobey.
"What about the pain?" I asked him. "If you're in a trance, are you even feeling it?" "Oh yes," he said, "I'm feeling it alright, but even though it can hurt like hell, it just feels "right" that I should be feeling it, because I've obviously done something to deserve it and it's your duty to correct me. I actually take comfort in the fact that you're correcting me this way, if that makes any sense."
I paused to reflect on what Karl was saying, and to tell the truth, it was scaring me a bit. Following his line of thought, it was almost impossible for me to see any limitations as to what I could put him through, and my own intense pleasure at being this "slave driver without limits" was discomforting. I clearly had to be very careful with this sort of power. Here we were in an area where I, as the Master, had to be aware that Karl, as the slave, was completely vulnerable and accepting of anything I could or would do to him. Instead of regarding myself as a Dom without limits, it was important that I had a red flag to protect Karl and myself from, well, me!
That's the way we left it. I vowed to myself to take that red flag seriously. Karl was clearly too far into this to stop me from going too far, so it was up to me. As always, the Dom in me was 90% (at least) responsible for the success or failure of this sort of relationship, and in this case - the slavery scene - it was more like 100% on me. So be it, at least until I decide that it's all too much to deal with. In truth, though, I don't see that coming about any time soon. I'm having fun, and it hasn't reached the point where it's "too much". It's up to me to keep it that way, and so I shall.
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Fascinating insight. Whilst my amazing wife and I do not have as much opportunity to explore these aspects of our relationship I can certainly identify when Karl describes it feeling just "Right" to be the recipient of pain. What strikes me about this post is that you both appear to benefit from the natural outlet that pain provides. This to me is a lovely expression of deep intimacy, of a couple empowering each other to be the truest version's of themselves.
ReplyDeleteRob - Thank you for the comment, and especially your final sentence. What a delightful way of expressing an oft misunderstood dynamic in the D/s world! Hope to hear from you again.
ReplyDeleteThank you again for sharing, Lady Grey.
ReplyDeleteI can relate strongly to Karl's feelings in this. It is indeed a very vulnerable state of being and can often be difficult to convey to others in a way that makes sense, especially if the sub is not a masochist. From what I know of Karl, it seems his subspace responds very strongly to situational environments and is able to react to the symbolism of an event as much as if not stringer than the actual event, e.g. it may arouse him to be beaten beyond his comfort zone because his subspace is responding to his powerlessness to the situation and his desire to please you, both of which outweigh his (potential) desire to avoid that pain.
I'm not sure if this came up, Lady Grey, but this may be something to consider (my apologies if this is something you are already well aware of)... In addition to it feeling "right" to him to experience pain as a corrective measure, it probably also feels "right" to him to experience pain for any or no reason. In that deep of space he would never ask why there is pain, but if he did, you could reply with just about anything and he would find a way to accept that as well, e.g. "because I can," because I wanted to," "because I was bored," "because it brings me pleasure to see you in pain," "because I know you will make a mistake tomorrow," etc. To a sub in that deep of space, all of those reasons are valid reasons. Even if it's just on a whim, he would never want to deny you that whim if you would want/enjoy whatever that entails.
I will say that Karl is very lucky that you understand the depth of the responsibility regarding this.
Two small tips I would have in regards to this:
-Do not let him know you are holding anything back even if that is the truth. When he is that deep, having that knowledge will likely make him feel terrible and inadequate because he will feel like he is depriving you of pleasure due to his own limitations.
-As long as you are aware of the potential of breaking him completely (in a bad way) and progress forward with a pace you are okay with, I'm sure he will adapt at the same speed along with you. The more intense things get, the faster he will adapt to them.
If you were to ever unintentionally go "too far", I believe he would probably be able to roll with it pretty well and if you were to let him know you went too far, he would feel ecstatic on some level that he was able to show his the depth of his love and devotion by suffering through it.
Fur- How wonderful to hear from you again, Fur! I was beginning to think that all of the "old crowd" had disappeared following Google's disastrous plunge into mega- censorship. Good to know that you're still here!
ReplyDeleteYour comments are, as usual, very worthwhile, especially since I know that you speak from personal (and sometimes painful) experience. The first of your "small tips" was especially illuminating. I haven't let him know that I'm holding back now and then, but your reasoning makes me glad that I haven't apprised him of such. It seems I was unintentionally doing the "right thing" concerning his potential feelings of inadequacy, but thanks for the rationale. It does clarify the issue.
As for your second tip, well that seems to be the way things are working out, as planned for and hoped for, and hopefully there will be no "going too far" scenarios on my part.
Great to hear from you, and I hope all is going well in your journey through life.
Thank you, Lady Grey. I'm very happy to see you are still writing. Google has indeed made it difficult on multiple fronts to keep things rolling, blog content is getting buried or not showing up in searches and they axed a few types of follower accounts which has thinned things out even more.
ReplyDeleteI will try to get back from writing as well.
Take care.
Just as a thought on this subject . . .
ReplyDeleteWhen someone is pushed well beyond their pain limits, especially on an on-going basis, they can begin to dissociate. It's a defense mechanism that allows someone to avoid being overwhelmed. Over time, it can cause serious problems like "losing time."
I get the sense that it may be difficult to distinguish dissociation from deep subspace.
Here's an article on it if you're interested: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pathological-relationships/201211/dissociation-isnt-life-skill
Anon - Thank you for the comment and the suggested article. I have read it just now and it's interesting, but I don't feel that dissociation is at work for Karl when he's in slave space. Here's a key quote from the article:
ReplyDelete"We can get trained to dissociate and use it against ourselves! Dissociation is when we separate from our awareness 'details' of an event".
Post slavery conversations with Karl make it clear that he's not separating himself from the details of what is happening to him, neither as it is happening nor afterwards. I've had Karl read the article as well, and he says that he's not becoming another person, so to speak, in order to negate the pain or deal with it, or for that matter, to "forgive" it. He did say, however, that it's possible that the pain I'm giving him simply isn't up to the level (especially psychologically speaking) of the sort that is covered by the article. I intend to keep it that way.
Thank you for the reference, and it's certainly food for thought.
Glad to hear it!
ReplyDelete